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Reader voices: Angry at eBay

By Ed Foster, Section The Gripelog
Posted on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:47:31 PM PDT

As we saw a few weeks ago, many eBay sellers are quite upset over changes the online auction giant recently made to its buyer/seller feedback system. Indeed, it sounds like the anger over this issue led to some very testy exchanges at eBay's annual meeting last week. But the comments I've been getting from readers suggest that eBay's problems go way beyond seller anger over the feedback changes.


As much as many sellers hate the new feedback system, many buyers say they were very frustrated by the old one. "I appreciate the point of view many sellers have regarding the changes eBay has made to its user feedback system - they worry that they will be at the mercy of dishonest, unscrupulous buyers," wrote one reader. "As an honest buyer, however, I think some change to eBay's feedback policy has been long overdue. EBay is entirely correct that the mutual feedback system wasn't working well because buyers were afraid to leave honest feedback. I have seen sellers who plainly post in their eBay listings statements like 'feedback will be given after it is received -- if we receive negative feedback, we will give negative feedback.' The seller has the obligation to describe an item accurately and to deliver the item in a timely fashion. If he fails either of these obligations, the buyer ought to be able to give appropriate feedback without fear of retaliation. With its revised feedback policy eBay has probably tilted the playing too much in favor of unscrupulous buyers. But after so many years of having the playing field favoring bad sellers, giving buyers an unfettered opportunity to report on bad sellers will feel like a breath of fresh air."

Another buyer felt that eBay has failed to fix the real problem. "Something was needed, but I think eBay went WAY too far. I think that sellers must be able to rate buyers, and vice versa, but that eBay needed to monitor the process better. I had a run-in with a seller a few years ago after I gave him a neutral rating to the transaction. He went ballistic. His response wasn't quite actionable but it was just on the edge. What really frosted me was that he kept e-mailing me and eBay wouldn't shut him up. EBay has always made a big deal about being a platform/marketplace and not a party to transaction, but these changes would seem to move them from an impartial entity to an interested party to the commerce."

Many feel that the feedback issue is just one symptom of eBay's struggle to reinvent itself. "Look at their announcements about more fraud protection for PayPal and new incentives for Powersellers" another reader wrote. "It's like eBay is bashing sellers over the head with one hand while offering them goodies with the other. The real problem is eBay has been generally indifferent to fraud - seller fraud and buyer fraud -- for too long, and it's a little late in the game for them to be trying to fix it now."

Be they buyers, sellers or both, a number of eBay customers seem to be thinking hard about alternatives. "EBay no longer cares about the small seller, the seller of one-of-a-kind, collectible, or just used stuff -- the kinds of items that made eBay what it is, or was," wrote another reader. "I buy and sell occasionally, so my 12-month feedback history can be easily dinged by one disgruntled/lunatic buyer (and there are PLENTY of those -- just read the eBay discussion forums!) But the high-volume Powerseller, the one selling cheap new junk from China, couldn't care less about a few dissatisfied buyers, because it won't have that big an effect on their feedback. I rarely buy new items from eBay. There are much better places for that -- Amazon, Newegg, even WalMart are way better choices for most things. EBay's only appeal for me -- and a lot of others, apparently -- is as a venue for finding stuff that would be impossible to find otherwise. It sure would be nice if another auction site would fill that niche again, but I haven't seen one yet."

There is life after eBay, some reported. "I was banished from eBay back in 2006," wrote a reader whose experience was the subject of a GripeLog story at that time. "Which worked out fine for us -- we've been selling on Amazon. You can't sell unusual items as easily, you have to set your price (it's not an auction) and you can't see how well items are selling. But there's no listing fee (only a closing fee) and customer service there seems much more responsive and responsible than eBay. If you don't like eBay's tactics, sell elsewhere. Eventually, market forces will cause eBay to change or fold. I'd like to see the latter."

Many readers wondered why eBay waited so long to try to address its problems. "EBay should have gotten serious about that small percentage of bad sellers who have such a negative impact on the whole experience," wrote a long-time seller. "Instead, they devised a way to appear that they are cracking down on bad sellers, but in reality are only increasing their fees. Their fees had already risen too high, and like many sellers I was listing items on eBay at prices higher than those on my real web site. It was not to make profit, but to avoid a loss while using eBay as a source of advertising for my real online store. I don't mean to be critical when I say that the complexity of the new system exceeds the average buyer's understanding. Until one has put the ridiculous amount of effort and hours into developing an eBay business, one can't possibly understand the pain of watching powerlessly as eBay's actions wipe out the effort we have dedicated. I am removing my listings and saving them to inventory so that I can return if eBay somehow sees the err of their ways, but I'm not holding my breath. Google gets the extra money I was paying eBay as I increase my effort to drive traffic to my website through Adwords. I am much more sad than mad. EBay used to be fun. Now it is absurd, exhausting and over-priced."

What do you think -- can eBay fix itself, or is the writing on the wall? Post your comments below or write Ed Foster at Foster@gripe2ed.com.

< Teleblend's terrible terms | Borderline searches and seizures >


Display: Sort:
Reader voices: Angry at eBay | 14 comments (14 topical) | Post A Comment
Help! Unprotected from viruses[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#1)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:08:22 AM PDT

This isn't related to the story above, but it's urgent, and it's also a gripe about misbehaving software or software companies.

I have AVG, and this morning it suddenly lost the ability to update itself. I know that they're discontinuing updates for AVG 7, but that's not it -- I'm using AVG 8, and suddenly it claims there is "an error" whenever it tries to update itself, and whenever I tell it to update immediately.

Since I haven't changed anything, and I most certainly have not made any error, the only conclusion I can draw is that one of the following severe problems is true:

  1. AVG 8 contains a severe, showstopping bug that eventually makes it incapable of remaining up to date, and then you're doomed.
  2. Or, the AVG company has decided to stop providing updates, and every last one of their customers is doomed.

How do I fix this FAST? I have a red exclamation mark in my systray that obviously cannot be allowed to persist, or my system may get infected and destroyed!

Also -- who did this to me, and why??? I've done nothing wrong!

[ Reply to This ]



WFM[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#3)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:51:21 PM PDT

It works for me. Make sure your firewall isn't blocking it because it's changed due to the last update you did.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Child spam post deleted[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#15)
by sconeu on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 03:07:47 PM PDT

Which of the following is not a word?
2YFK9R, Gray, Virginia, Blue, Kia, Jaguar

Besides the "correct" answer, Virginia and Kia.  Both are proper names.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States of America.
[ Parent | Reply to This ]



AVG Updates[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 09:37:01 PM PDT

I had the same symptom.  Downloaded a new copy of AVG 8 Free, uninstalled the old one and then reinstalled the new.  Works fine now.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


More than what's on the surface[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#2)
by MrsPost on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 07:38:48 AM PDT

I'm a very occasional seller on eBay but I watch what they're up to see if it's worth my time to continue.

Here's some of the patterns I've gleaned from reading a variety of sources.

Yes, PowerSellers are offered some advantages. If they meet certain feedback criteria. Technically a neutral feedback won't count towards the overall rating. But eBay does count it towards the rating that is required for the advantages. So PowerSellers left and right are not able to meet the criteria for the dubious advantages that were so highly promoted.

Fees have gone up to an insane level for small sellers. Listing fee. Selling fee. They've both gone up right in the sweet spot for the majority of the smaller sellers. So the auction price generally, hopefully, covers the cost of the auction itself.

The new default search results are 'Best Match'. eBay determines that Best Match and it's on who is giving them the most money. You can switch it to ending soonest, etc. but for the casual buyer they're not going to notice that they're being led towards certain sellers.

The amount of absolute garbage from foreign sellers is amazing. They blatantly ignore the listing rules and no one has the time to individually report thousands of auctions. So there they sit. eBay isn't going to take action since they get paid for each and every listing.

I used eBay for the huge pool of buyers for unusual/unique items. There really isn't an alternative for that kind of thing. Yahoo tried for a while but that's been gone for quite a while. Perhaps it's time for them to dust off that code since so many people are looking for another venue.

Feedback is now completely useless on both sides. Bad buyers are having a field day with this and using negative feedback as a hammer to try to force sellers into doing what they want. Sellers aren't bothering to leave feedback since eBay is removing the 'negative positives' that are useful in identifying the buyers engaging in this type of behaviour. So the mutual rating system is down the tubes.

eBay as we knew it is gone. It's now just a playground for foreign dropshippers selling knockoff garbage. There's no way to tell the good from the bad. And it's all looking bad because of it.

Farewell eBay. We had a good run but you got greedy and that's going to be the turning point in your slide into obscurity.

[ Reply to This ]



Truer words could not be spoken...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 01:07:27 PM PDT

Hear hear, MrsPost. I stopped selling on Ebay two years back --my items now go on Craigslist (I was never in it as a big business) where it costs me nothing to list, sell, or ship, the buyer and I meet, I get paid cash, they get to visually inspect the item as they buy it, and everyone is happy.

Ebay/PayPal has jumped the shark. They just don't know it yet. Aside from a few hard-to-find items, they're fast becoming an online Wal-Mart, another place I never set foot in.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



One correction...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#9)
by rodak on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 08:52:53 AM PDT

With the feedback policy changes that took place on May 19, a Neutral feedback counts the same as a Negative in calculating your overall score. Just another of the brilliant ideas from your friends at eBay!

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Good-bye eBay[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#6)
by RocDoc on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 08:06:13 AM PDT

I've been an eBay member since 1999 when I found it to be a fantastic place to procure and offer the unusual and one-of-a-kind items that have special meaning for me. I noticed the change in 2004 when eBay allowed itself to be promoted as a place where you could make a living as a full time reseller of exotic trash and junque. Now in 2008 we watch infomercials promoting "Make Money on EBay".

Ha!

EBay went from the online garage sale to an online flea market to what it is today - crap. A feedback system that promotes bullying and blackmail, no obvious way to contact eBay to complain, and when you do find a way to register a issue, no response from eBay to address the issue.

I find it fascinating that eBay will routinely pull my listings because "someone" claims copyright infringement (such as the resale of a vinyl record album - how could I "pirate" a vinyl album?), but I'm still out the listing fees (perhaps a ploy by eBay to make more money?). And speaking of listing fees - I wouldn't make a penny on any I try to sell unless I set the price to at least $6.71 or more, for a very inexpensive item.

The ab"users" of eBay send me countless emails complaining of my shipping fees. I don't charge shipping fees of two or three times the cost of the item like many members. I treat the buyer as I want to be treated when it comes to shipping fees - actual shipping costs. But try to tell the buyer of a CD or cassette tape that the $2.35 parcel post fee, plus the $1.50 bubble wrap mailer and the $1.35 insurance is an actual cost of $5.20. Why insurance? Because of abuse by the buyers who claim the item never arrives (six buyers in a row ...). This doesn't even cover my time, expense, or gasoline to wrap it up, address it, and take it to the post office for delivery.

So, let's say I want a $2 profit for a CD. The typical listing fee, including one photo in the search list and a small designer wrapper on the sale page is typically 70 cents for an item $2 or more. The final sale fee is a percentage of the winning bid, and will be around 30 cents for a $2 winning bid. Finally, PayPal (don't even get me started on PayPal) charges around 50 cents to process your credit card payment for the item you won. So, it costs around $1.50 just to get the item listed and sold on eBay. Add to that the profit I want to receive and the shipping fees and its $8.70 for a final sale price. Hey, for that price I can get the album new at Wal-Mart, so why bother making a purchase on eBay and waiting (and waiting and waiting) for it to arrive?

I choose to vote with my wallet - I don't sell on eBay any more. I rarely look at eBay today for the collectables I desire as there is too much manure to wade through for the possible treasure nugget.

The worst thing, for me, is that there is no way to directly let eBay know that I am very highly unsatisfied with them. I can only let them know indirectly by not using them for buying or selling, and by leaving notes like this.



[ Reply to This ]



Re: Good-bye Ebay[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#7)
by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 05:55:21 PM PDT

I choose to vote with my wallet - I don't sell on eBay any more. I rarely look at eBay today for the collectables I desire as there is too much manure to wade through for the possible treasure nugget.

The worst thing, for me, is that there is no way to directly let eBay know that I am very highly unsatisfied with them. I can only let them know indirectly by not using them for buying or selling, and by leaving notes like this.

If you could let Ebay know, they would do what they do when anyone else does anyway --not listen and continue running things as they wish, with, at best, a token "I'm sorry you feel that way, we do the best to treat our customers with the utmost blah, blah..." form letter.

Ebay knows they have a monopoly on their type of business --as long as no other competitor gains traction, they don't suffer a major loss of customers, and their shareholders are happy, they can do what they want, including screwing over sellers and/or buyers, whenever it suits them. They (and PayPal) have worked as hard as possible to ensure they can assume as little responsibility as possible for anything that may go wrong in a transaction.

[ Parent | Reply to This ]



UnPayPal[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:40:53 PM PDT

I haven't purchased anything on eBay since I moved and changed ISP's. I couldn't get into my account. After various phone calls and faxes, they finally sent me an email saying they couldn't verify me and were going to close the account and mail me a check for the balance. 9 months later I am still waiting on that check...

[ Reply to This ]


Terrible feedback changes[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#10)
by Rey on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:35:44 AM PDT

I have precisely one negative feedback after 10 years on eBay of more than 900 sales and 200 purchases.

The neg was from a seller whose product description said the item had a warranty when it did not. The item arrived DOA.

After PayPal conducted an investigation and made him give me a refund, he left me a neg. eBay will not allow removal of a neg.

That seller receives an average of 55 negs a year, year after year, more than one a week. I have just that one in 10 years.

After Brian Burke's sly, wicked feedback changes at eBay, that seller has a 98% positive feedback record. I have a 97.5.

Do you really want to do business on eBay?
Rey in Virginia
[ Reply to This ]



No, but...[ Parent | Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:25:08 PM PDT

...why did you do business with a seller that you knew got 55 negs a year?

[ Parent | Reply to This ]


Amazon is getting to be like eBay[ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#12)
by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 01:23:24 PM PDT

Amazon's lack of a listing fee has its own problems. People list junk -- they list foreign editions of textbooks, they list broken items, they list solutions manuals. And there's no easy way to report listings that violate the rules. What's worse, Amazon has no photos.

If Amazon doesn't do something, it's going to be the next eBay -- somewhere to get a deal, but something you can't trust.



[ Reply to This ]


Ed's Ahead of Curve [ Reply to This ] (none / 0) (#13)
by srynas on Mon Jul 14, 2008 at 06:04:55 AM PDT

Well Ed has been breaking the angry Ebay story first. The New York Times (July 14, 2008) just ran Buy.com Deal With EBay Angers Sellers

[ Reply to This ]


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